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Old 12-28-2017, 06:04 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Default Post disaster Prime Base Comminications

In classic MP Prime base get's knocked out by a bio followed by a nuke. The Base computer was programmed to randomly send out wake up codes. This brings up a lot of issues.

Firstly the bad guys know where they popped the nuke. Any radio signals originating from that location would likely have triggered some sort of investigation. The PB crew would have known this was a risk. How would they have dealt with it? One way is to only bounce signals off the Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%..._communication

Now this means they would have needed a directional antenna.
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:31 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Not necessarily, the messages were being sent at random times, on random frequencies, then it would be hard for Krell to intercept. My understanding of the Krell time is that they were sent from the Krell centre of power to destroy Prime Base. This would argue for a small team that was not equipped to remain in the area after the nuke went off. Krell would then have to move radio intercept equipment into the region to triangulate any radio transmissions. Would Krell have been able to do this for any amount of time?

One of the short comings of the module is the lack of detail into Prime's communications. Yes, they reference to a communications module, but detail is sorely lacking. I can see a series of omni-directional and directed antennas. Satellite uplink to a Morrow Industries communications satellite, certainly in the realm of possibility, an aero-stat boosting a long antenna, again possible. But only one communications module? Doubtful, I can see several modules scattered over a few hundred kilometres, in LOS of each other, but spreading Prime's commo support over a region, making it more difficult to triangulate....have to look into this deeper!
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:54 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Not necessarily, the messages were being sent at random times, on random frequencies, then it would be hard for Krell to intercept. My understanding of the Krell time is that they were sent from the Krell centre of power to destroy Prime Base. This would argue for a small team that was not equipped to remain in the area after the nuke went off. Krell would then have to move radio intercept equipment into the region to triangulate any radio transmissions. Would Krell have been able to do this for any amount of time?
The flip side of this is they have to be broadcasting 360 and at relatively high power. Even if the transmissions are fairly infrequent sooner or later that many transmissions will get someone interested. I'm not sure if they are on random frequencies. The signal has to go all the way to the coasts from PB. I can't see any way the sending unit has any idea where the team they are sending to is, so they will need to use maximum power and send on a frequency that will reach that far.

Your idea of a distributed group of transmitters would help, but they will still be pretty close to each other and would give a fairly close fix.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:18 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
The flip side of this is they have to be broadcasting 360 and at relatively high power. Even if the transmissions are fairly infrequent sooner or later that many transmissions will get someone interested. I'm not sure if they are on random frequencies. The signal has to go all the way to the coasts from PB. I can't see any way the sending unit has any idea where the team they are sending to is, so they will need to use maximum power and send on a frequency that will reach that far.

Your idea of a distributed group of transmitters would help, but they will still be pretty close to each other and would give a fairly close fix.
We also have the various manned and unmanned commo bases, possibly automatically transmitting messages.

This is a subject that requires a lot more research!!
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:31 PM
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Ultra Low Frequency traveling through bedrock.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:56 AM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Ultra Low Frequency traveling through bedrock.
Wikipedia has this to say about ULF range Radio amateurs and electronics hobbyists have used this mode for limited range communications using audio power amplifiers connected to widely spaced electrode pairs hammered into the soil. At the receiving end, the signal is detected as a weak electric current between a further pair of electrodes. Using weak signal reception methods with PC-based DSP filtering with extremely narrow bandwidths, it is possible to receive signals at a range of a few kilometers with a transmitting power of 10-100 W and electrode spacing of around 1050 m.

You are acommo guy so probably have more information to share
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:23 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
In classic MP Prime base get's knocked out by a bio followed by a nuke. The Base computer was programmed to randomly send out wake up codes. This brings up a lot of issues.

Firstly the bad guys know where they popped the nuke. Any radio signals originating from that location would likely have triggered some sort of investigation. The PB crew would have known this was a risk. How would they have dealt with it? One way is to only bounce signals off the Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%..._communication
There was minimal risk. Prime Base had been attacked and the location was probably already comprised. The codes were supposed to go out all at once, which would minimize the exposure unless the unknown assailant was sitting there, a couple of years post-war, running RDF systems in the vicinity. And if they are doing that, they already know the location.

The mistake which resulted in the codes being sent at random intervals would increase the exposure, but depending on the coding and frequency of TMP comms, it is questionable how long it would take Krell to even start monitoring the wavelength, much less understand the significance. Regardless, monitoring such a signal operating so erratically would be quite difficult and resource-expensive. Krell might not bother when it is such an infrequent set of such small messages from a facility known to be destroyed - it is easy to dismiss as an intermittent short in some failing system.

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Now this means they would have needed a directional antenna.
They would no doubt have a few, but not for this. In the original scheme, they could hardly expect to have a couple of antennas zipping mechanically through a variety of directions, and doing so would have dramatically increased the risk (giving away directions to anyone nearby, any mechanical failure dooming the whole effort, substantially increasing transmit time, etc). It is better to use a dipole or other near-isotropic antenna and rely on the coding and frequency schemes to get the signal out quick and quiet.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:30 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
Wikipedia has this to say about ULF range Radio amateurs and electronics hobbyists have used this mode for limited range communications using audio power amplifiers connected to widely spaced electrode pairs hammered into the soil. At the receiving end, the signal is detected as a weak electric current between a further pair of electrodes. Using weak signal reception methods with PC-based DSP filtering with extremely narrow bandwidths, it is possible to receive signals at a range of a few kilometers with a transmitting power of 10-100 W and electrode spacing of around 1050 m.

You are acommo guy so probably have more information to share
Transmitting through bedrock has significant problems over long range, and there are lots of ways to transmit securely, especially in a post-war, resource starved environment. There are a few ways that shouldn't be discussed on here, but one simple way going back to your directional antenna idea is to use a single tight-beam link (laser, perhaps) to transmit to an in-range relay station with a command to rebroadcast isotropic. It is unlikely that the tight-beam is intercepted or blocked in time to stop the transmission, and if they find the relay station, so what? Losing that is well worth transmitting the codes.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:11 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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There was minimal risk. Prime Base had been attacked and the location was probably already comprised.
That isn't the point. The point is that Prime has to appear to have been killed by the bio and the nuke. If it is radiating then it isn't dead. The only reason Krell doesn't have his minions looking through the area is that whatever was there appears to be well and truly dead.

Terry
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:49 AM
bobcat bobcat is offline
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honestly for secure long range commo micrometeorite burst communications is probably a better bet. assuming you have well maintained gear it is quite viable to bounce narrow band radio communications off of the ionization trail of micrometeorites in the earth's atmosphere. the only problem is while it gives you very secure comms it is somewhat easier to jam.
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