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View Poll Results: Which Twilight timeline do you prefer?
Twilight 2000 v1 62 42.76%
Twilight 2000 v2 9 6.21%
Twilight 2000 v2.2 28 19.31%
Twilight 2013 8 5.52%
A Homebrewed Twilight Timeline 38 26.21%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 08-09-2009, 02:11 AM
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Greetings gentlemen,

Not so long lurker, first time posting...

Ever since the USSR fell apart in 1991, Twilight 2000 worked best as alternative history, rather than as speculative fiction. It should have been re-released as an alternative history period piece set at the turn of the millenium. I think the folks behind Twilight:2013 may have made a mistake setting the game in a year that is rapidly approaching. Before you know it, events will overtake the speculative fiction, which will end up looking pretty quaint.

For example, I think we can all see that Frank Frey's moderate Islamic Republic of Iran (as depicted in the RDF Sourcebook) turned out to be as fanciful as the USSR lasting until 2000. And the idea that the Slovenians and Croats would side with the USSR against pro-NATO Serbs shows both it's age and it's false assumptions.

For myself, I've been working on a homegrown history of my own, heavily influenced by the v.1 and v.2 histories. My history diverges in 1989 when hardliners in the USSR assassinate Gorbachev by blowing up his plane while he is traveling to China just before the Tianamen Square Massacre. So, no 1991 coup, no Sino-Soviet War, no wall coming down...

... well, not completely anyways. 1989 to 1991 is an era of extreme crisis, with the USSR desperately trying to hold the Warsaw Pact together, the Gulf War and the break up of Yugoslavia. All these events are recast in light of the renewed Cold War and a hard line USSR.

My Twilight War ends up being a massive confrontation not just between western democracies and a reinvigorated Sino-Soviet alliance, but also between radical Islam. With the Gulf war working out differently, the Serbs engaging in "ethnic cleansing" against Muslims in the Yugoslavia, and the USSR scapegoating their Muslim citizens for the assassination of Gorbachev, leads to the growth of radical Islam into a world-wide threat about 5 years too early.

Rather than bore the crap out of everyone by writing about it here, I'll hold off and post my Twilight War time-line when I've filled in some of the biggest gaps. It currently stands at 37,000 words and tries to incorporate as much real world history as possible. I've also got a sort of global gazetteer in the works, trying to come up with the basic state of the world's governments after the Twilight War. That's currently at 35,000 words and still growing.

Anyways... excellent material on this forum. Keep up the great work guys.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing.
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  #32  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:09 AM
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Sounds great. Definately interested in what you've done.
Wouldn't mind lending a hand either.
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker View Post
Sounds great. Definately interested in what you've done.
Wouldn't mind lending a hand either.
Well, it looks like I can attach pdf files to these forum posts, so I guess I'll just set up a new thread and post it when I'm feeling gutsy...

... what I've got is very basic and hasn't been fully researched. At least, not to my tastes anyways.

Anyone prefer a format other than pdf?

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing
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  #34  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:37 PM
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Word would be nice if you don't mind me tweaking things a bit with some suggestions - need something to do while I'm supposed to be working!

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  #35  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:05 PM
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Word would be nice if you don't mind me tweaking things a bit with some suggestions - need something to do while I'm supposed to be working!
Well, since my work will clearly be perfect, and beyond the hand of mortal man to improve, there will be no need for you to tweek it.

Seriously though, if you know how to use Word's editing options so that I can see all the corrections, that would be fine. It looks like I can post two files attached to each forum post. I'll try to get this done before Tuesday, but as I have to get on a red-eye flight to GenCon Indy, it may have to wait until after I get back.

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  #36  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sglancy12 View Post
It looks like I can post two files attached to each forum post.
You should be able to attach 10 files (up to 5 at a time).

We do have a 500kB limit on files to keep bandwidth down. If you want to share something larger I would suggest www.rapidshare.com. Just make sure you sign up for the collector zone at the end (to allow more than 10 downloads).

For example I put the breakdown of all my morrow project kits there.
http://rapidshare.com/files/23600164...ll_formats.zip

Most would not apply to T2k but the some of the medical kits would.
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  #37  
Old 08-09-2009, 11:37 PM
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Seriously though, if you know how to use Word's editing options so that I can see all the corrections, that would be fine.
Can be done!
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  #38  
Old 02-16-2010, 04:26 PM
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If you use the cutewriter program you can write it using any word processing program and convert it to pdf.
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  #39  
Old 02-18-2010, 04:05 PM
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I'm currently playing in a game based on an alternative timeline, where war starts in 1983 as a result of NATO's ABLE ARCHER-war game being interpreted wrong by the paranoid Yuri Andropov. The change in era means that NATO and the Soviets are much more equal in strength and economic capability.
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  #40  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemper Boyd View Post
I'm currently playing in a game based on an alternative timeline, where war starts in 1983 as a result of NATO's ABLE ARCHER-war game being interpreted wrong by the paranoid Yuri Andropov. The change in era means that NATO and the Soviets are much more equal in strength and economic capability.
Have you read the thread "Able Archer 1983??" (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2263)? I think you might be able to contribute some very interesting material to that discusion.
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  #41  
Old 05-28-2010, 10:44 PM
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I love the original time line because of the nostalgia and for simplicity in gaming, but I actually like the 2013 time line better.
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2011, 07:46 AM
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...I actually like the 2013 time line better.
HEATHEN!!!
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2011, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
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I love the original time line because of the nostalgia and for simplicity in gaming, but I actually like the 2013 time line better.
Well you're in the minority there but that's fine, the world is built on diversity of opinions and ideas. I'd love to know what it is about the 2013 timeline that attracts you.
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  #44  
Old 04-20-2011, 03:20 AM
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I love the original time line because of the nostalgia and for simplicity in gaming, but I actually like the 2013 time line better.
We have our own variety of the timeline.
Back in the 1990s we could still relate to the whole East vs West situation. But as the things changed and WWIII: Moscow vs Washington- the Slugfest became less and less likely we also started to "look for new angles".

It is nostalgic to go back to the simpler age of fearing the Bear. So I do enjoy the old timelines. Also I do like the attempted new angle the 2013 set up has.
But neither older nor newer timeline really had it for us - so we came up with our own. The idea dates back to around 2002-2003. We started playing this campaign in 2004/2005.

It has elements of 2013 and some scavenged bits from the V1 or V2 installments.

Here is a link. But one caveat - my fellow gamers have condensed and translated bits of it so any misspelling should be attributed them!

Also - content might be controversial to some. Rest assured that this is not a political statement of any sort and that any disrespect to any nation - particularily the USA is not ourt intention. ( I guess I could get upset if someone dismembered my country and exaggurated things about it.). Lastly - of course there will be a myriad reasons that this wouldnt play out this way. But here it goes:

http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/about.html


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  #45  
Old 10-11-2011, 05:33 AM
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Though I wasn't around for the hollow army nor the 80's build up, I do kinda miss the bad old good days of the cold war- you kinda knew what to expect.
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  #46  
Old 10-11-2011, 01:11 PM
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M? Is that you?
In the old days he'd have had the decency to defect! Christ I miss the Cold War...
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  #47  
Old 10-16-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Panther Al View Post
Though I wasn't around for the hollow army nor the 80's build up, I do kinda miss the bad old good days of the cold war- you kinda knew what to expect.
I'm 45 and I miss the Cold War, at least you know who was playing on what team along with other things of a political bent but I'll leave it at that for now. That said, there is a good writeup on TV Tropes about "Why We're Bummed Communism Fell."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...dCommunismFell
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  #48  
Old 01-24-2012, 11:43 AM
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If I remember right that was the reason behind the Soviet attack in War Day by Whitley Streiber and James Kunetka as well - the US was starting to deploy an SDI system that would have rendered the Soviets almost totally (they felt) at Americas mercy. War Day is another book I'd highly recommend.
The US shuttle was destoryed in orbit whne they deployed a spider SDI system, I frist read WAR Day while working in Thialand, I found a copy in a High School Library where I was working, I think they made a another book nature end?
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  #49  
Old 01-24-2012, 01:46 PM
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The US shuttle was destoryed in orbit whne they deployed a spider SDI system, I frist read WAR Day while working in Thialand, I found a copy in a High School Library where I was working, I think they made a another book nature end?
Yeah, Nature's End which is like Warday but instead focuses on a sort of biological apocalypse rather than a nuclear one.
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  #50  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:25 AM
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My group have taken to using the V1 timeline but moving it back a decade. Kick off is December '86 and our campaighns start in the summer of 1990.

It fits so much better.
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  #51  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman View Post
My group have taken to using the V1 timeline but moving it back a decade. Kick off is December '86 and our campaighns start in the summer of 1990.

It fits so much better.
That sounds good. Pre-90s is where I like it too, not just for a better timeline, but for the nostalgia of the cold war.
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  #52  
Old 04-02-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman View Post
My group have taken to using the V1 timeline but moving it back a decade. Kick off is December '86 and our campaighns start in the summer of 1990.

It fits so much better.
This idea is growing on me....
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  #53  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:45 AM
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If I can find a group to play, 2013 with a little bit of modification/fleshing out of the background.
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  #54  
Old 06-13-2012, 09:28 PM
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I don't know if I personally have a favorite timeline, but the game I'm currently prepping to run has a homebrew timeline with a war kicking off in 2012/13 and play beginning in 2020.

I gotta say though, that I like the idea of a war kicking off in the 80s and play beginning in the 90s, that's very... period.

Wolverines!
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  #55  
Old 01-13-2014, 03:36 PM
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I would say kind of my own, as take what they put out and then update it a bit to try and have real life fit in to the game.

Last edited by CDAT; 01-21-2014 at 05:23 AM.
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  #56  
Old 01-18-2014, 07:22 AM
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I've tried pushing dates back slightly, my preferred system is V2.2 with a slightly altered T2013 timeline. With speculation of a Chinese currency war in 2017 and adding TEOTWAWKI 2020 paranoia. I just roll the years forward a little. It gives me time to convert the civvie career stuff to V2.2.
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  #57  
Old 07-21-2014, 11:07 AM
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Default I'm for the v1 Timeline

I have always been a fan of the v1 timeline for a few reasons:
  1. The v1 time line (as projected forward from 1984) was clearly a fantasy, and not a terribly realistic projection (IMHO). Now, as such, it served its purpose of having a clash of arms using the large scale military units available in the mid-80s projected froward to the mid 90s.
  2. For my money, the V2 and V2.2 times became increasing weak and unlikely. Do recall that amounts of the chaos and destruction in Poland and Germany (and elsewhere) were caused by conventional forces rolling over towns; it was not all casued by tac nukes. The conventional forces (actually) available in V2 and V2.2 from both the east and west lack the density to cause the kind of widespread destruction depicted in T2K. Neither side can put enough boots on the ground - especially not the CIS, and by 1995, the WP was gone. To my mind, the bear in V2 or V2.2 was too defanged to be that much of a threat.
  3. I have trouble buying the state of the rest of the world in v2 or v2.2. The CIS lacked the resources to deliver widespread nukes to destroy oil or power resources 1995; certainly they had very little in the way of a functioning navy. The rest of the world would have found it easier to go on afterward, even with a tac-nuke walloping of the US.
  4. I am completely ignorant of the 2013 timeline. However, if it does start later than 1995, there are a raft of issues that crop up that would require a raft of additions - computers, cell phones, telecom networks (national and international, partial or local internets), military vehicles had major upgrades in electronic targeting systems in the last 20 years, a raft of other personal electronic possibilities, military and civilian. Sticking to the original timeline avoids a raft of these issues.
Certainly, I have a few issues with the v1 timeline, and any number of questions about how and when to branch off of real-world history. But on the whole, I'd rather stick with it than go to something else.

Uncle Ted
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  #58  
Old 09-18-2014, 07:32 PM
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I've already gone on record many times here professing my adoration for the original v1.0 timeline. As a late Cold War kid just falling in love with military science and history, the first Twilight 2000 backstory really rang true. In hindsight, it doesn't hold up quite as well, but if one looks at it as alternative history, it still works well enough.

That said, Rainbow Six and I have been working on a more modern, near-future version set in the mid-to-late 2020s. It takes into account actual history since 1984 or so and current events right up to today's headlines. An updated version also allows us to include actual current military tech, some of which is even cooler than what the creators of the original game predicted, as well as nifty gear projected for service entry during the next decade-and-a-half. The one issue I'm finding with this approach is that events in the real world are happening so thick and fast that the "backstory" is constantly evolving in response. Every time I feel pretty confident in what we've written, something happens that necessitates adjustments/changes. I'm worried that we can't ever really get ahead of what's going on today. Still, it's a fun- and kind of scary- pastime.

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  #59  
Old 09-18-2014, 08:09 PM
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Interesting read there Raellus. I'm definitely keen to read what you and Rainbow Six have cooked up (and I reckon many others here would be too!)
Out of curiousity, can you explain anything more or give some hints about major events (maybe in a specific thread perhaps?)

I'm interested to see how China plays out in any updated timeline because I tend to see them as a believable future (fictional) enemy. Although they haven't shown much belligerence in the real world, there are certainly signs that they might take it further. For example, there's been a slew of Chinese "advice" to Australia to watch itself in regards to our ties to the USA and also to Japan.

China has also been trying to curry favour with many island nations in the Pacific with gifts of roadworks, building projects, vehicles and even passenger/freight aircraft. The overall view is that they are seeking alternate sources for fishing and minerals but the "other" talk claims that this foreign aid is specifically to help them open a friendly (as in "totally Chinese controlled") naval base. That coupled with their recent advances in making a more professional and technologically updated military gives some good avenues for game-world speculation.


Further reading: -

Chinese "advice" to Australia (note that the dates are from 2012 onwards so it's not something that has just "popped up" of late)
http://www.the-american-interest.com...nts-australia/
http://www.theage.com.au/national/ch...606-1zwp0.html
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/ch...s-tiger-2013-1
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...122-2d52d.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...e6ebb0e096c832
http://www.theasanforum.org/australi...in-turbulence/

China in the Pacific
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/issues/chinese-foreign-aid
http://pacificpolicy.org/blog/2012/0...ea-of-contest/
https://www.aspi.org.au/publications...ds-regionalism
http://www.usni.org/magazines/procee...-pacific-basin
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/publica...nd-governments
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/news-an...itute-analysis
http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/...e-Pacific.aspx
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3759160.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-1...acific/4686328
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  #60  
Old 09-20-2014, 03:45 PM
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Thanks, SSC. We're currently at work on the European war chapters but we'll be returning to Asia shortly. Once Rainbow's back from holiday, we'll be able- hopefully- to start publishing some of the 2030 "history".
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